CD 2   (73 mins)
 

2/1

DULVERTON CARNIVAL/CONFETTI FETE

Of course things did change. Carnival started to change. In old days you had to have carnival because you had recommendations to go into hospital. No recommendations, no hospital. Ran carnival, everyone gave generously so recommendations could be bought, recommendations so you could go into hospital. Had to have recommendation, to prove money had been given to hospital. No national health. Money had been already placed in hospital, then they would issue recommendations against it, so they could receive so many people. Recommendation would be a piece of paper, Herberts would have bought so many, the parson, and various people. Your medical things had to be paid for, the people couldn't afford it. All this money had to be raised through the carnival so there was enough money put in to cover population. Carnival really quite important, one of the major events, hundreds of pounds had to be put in. People would throw money into floats. Then it was essential to put money in, not like for a pavilion on sports field today, then it was a matter of life or death, no-one really knew whether they might want this money. Presumes money paid into some medical fund, doesn't really know, just knows this went on. Organised by carnival committee.

Used to have confetti fete on a Saturday night, would sell bags of confetti which were thrown all over the town, cleaned up on Sunday morning, held once a year to raise money. By 1948 with national health service carnival no longer necessary, state paying so you could go to hospital. Made quite a difference, before national health, medical services had to be paid for. Doctors would work charges accordingly, if someone had plenty of money went up, if they hadn't it was adjusted. Wasn't all that satisfactory, was far from satisfactory. Then carnival started to go downhill, had lost impetus.

Carnival would have been much the same then as now. Dulverton had a town band, mostly Hernimans, Germans and Hernimans. Doesn't know why band ceased, a pity, no leader possibly. Carnival much like it is today, with its floats. Went downhill, wasn't urgency to hold it. Ceased for a while, and then would start again. Has been running for last few years because Jan Ross [community education] has been chasing it, if she didn't it would drop again. No difference in theme. Used to get roundabouts and fair in Bank Square, Thursday to Saturday. Carnival on Thursday, then break on Friday when roundabouts would have been running, then confetti fete on Saturday. Confetti fete another way of collecting money. Used to have machines you could play games on, another way of getting money. Couldn't have a confetti fete now, environmental officer would be down on Sunday morning wondering what had happened. It was a mess, particularly if wet [laughs]. [Back to top]
 

2/2
 

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES

Other cyclical things in town? Life went on much as usual. Parades dropped out in 1930s. Again all to do with national health. Friendly societies used to parade Whit Monday, any excuse they got banners out and regalia, would parade and band play. Again all medical, funds in case you were sick because you had no money. So many things based on medicine. Funds had to be raised and there were these clubs. With coming of national health ceased, urgency gone. TT has belonged to Royal Order of Foresters since he was 16, ceased in Dulverton a few years ago. All kinds of societies, all the same, catering for people putting money in for when they were sick. You paid money into Royal Order of Foresters each week or month, subscription, and if you were sick money was paid out. It didn't do anything else, was just a friendly society. TT understands that in old days if you were receiving money couldn't go out after six o'clock at night, stayed indoors. If you went out after, someone reported you. Meant that you soon came off it, no running about [laughs]. Quite a good rule. People got money even if not in hospital, might have broken arm or leg. With broken leg or arm surprising how some people got up the pub and sat there all night. TT thinks should have rules like that today sometimes, to tie people down. [Back to top]
 

2/3
 

GENTRY/CLERGY

When worked at sawmills had moved to Brushford, moved in 1938. Claytons cut down on staff, things beginning to be not quite so good, they got rid of the farm and various things. Northmoor and Pixton Park very similar, self-contained units. Pixton owned all Bury village, it came within Pixton estate, so did Brushford. Most of land, parish hall and other places have been given by Herberts, usually free of charge. Dulverton cemetery given by Mrs Herbert as well, partly to do with where to bury the roman catholics. She gave about an acre of land, which had to have hedge put round it, was just part of a field. Was up to parish council to put hedge round, which they did. Land given in 1932. Still being used now, will last a while longer TT reckons because so many people cremated now, not buried. Surprising.

Two estates didn't vie with each other. Then there was Baronsdown, out in the valley, all large estates in their day. A pity really, TT supposes it had something - did people begin to resent it? You had people like Mrs Herbert, then Amorys in Brushford and these people. Always there, presided over things, perhaps they gave things some kind of stability which you don't have today. The church did, then there was the parson and gentry, but they were always there. Something was wanted, but quite likely someone like Mrs Herbert or the Amorys would step in and it was practically given to you, it was made available, which you don't have today because these people have no money. They don't have much more money than anyone else, those days have gone when they were very wealthy in comparison with the village people. But it did give the village some stability. The church still does now, provide stabilising influence, although they don't go to church the services go on and it's always there if they want it. Gentry went and with them went their assistance and help. They were there and would come in. If minor squabble going on these people had power to control it. Today that influence has gone.

People did resent it. TT thinks church overstepped the mark, here in Brushford. Wouldn't have whist drives in lent. Parson du Boe was a bit like that, would say when you could have things, if he said you couldn't you didn't. Resented. In time power of rector got pushed out. Until now unfortunately parson would usually be chairman of parish council or parish hall meeting, had some influence, but that is gone now. Other people had to take their place, not quite so easy, can cause more squabbling [laughs]. Surprising. TT says Dulverton people have suffered him for many years. [Back to top]
 

2/4
 

SAWMILLS BURNT DOWN

Worked at sawmills from 1948 until 1969, except for a little time with the Water Board, about 20 years, then went to work for Fred Radley. TT supposes many changes at sawmills. Little Kynaston girl burnt it down. They lived at Burston, she decided she'd do a bit of fire-raising, back end of 40s. She had several goes, they caught her in the end going into Carnarvon Arms garage. She had petrol, matches, the lot. Walked right into them. Don't know why, was a young girl of about 14 - they get like that at times. Was going out at night, creeping out of the window, no-one knew, she was back again next morning, didn't take her very long to run round. TT working at sawmills at the time. It was burnt down and rebuilt, all set up again.

Then had big 1952 flood. Went right through the mill, over all the machinery, electric by then, put it out again [laughs]. Don't seem to have these disasters now.

Doesn't know who fought the fire. Happened during the night and all out by morning. Fire engines came out. Office not burnt, separate block. She burnt main mill, not other buildings. Didn't burn anything else down. TT thinks she'd have had the Carnarvon garage that night if she hadn't been caught. You didn't know when or where she was going to do it. No-one knew it was her. TT doesn't know what happened to her, she disappeared and that was that. TT knew mother and father quite well. She was Nicholas Kynaston's sister (he gives organ recitals). Kynastons very talented, Mrs Kynaston used to play violin and teach in convent school in Tiverton. Around until 80s, living in Tiverton then.

John de Savary and Peter de Savary bought the sawmills. Something told TT it was going to go. They could get rural development grants because they were just in Devon and rural development commission was paying grants for just that area. TT thought one day you lot are just going to pull out and go. Then Fred Radley and Fishers joined together (builders) . They were looking for someone for the office. TT thought it's time I moved on otherwise I'm going to be here and they're going to go. So he went and saw Fred Radley, David Clayton and Pat Chanter and agreed to leave sawmills. That went on just long enough to see him to 65, quite fortunate. [Back to top]
 

2/5
 

WEST SOMERSET DISTRICT COUNCIL/DULVERTON TOWN CLERK RESPONSIBILITIES

At 65 he was going around saying whatever shall I do. Dulverton town council looking for clerk, TT sent note saying he'd be retiring and felt would have time to do it. Reply came back well you'd better do it then. That went on until now, year 2000. A few weeks after Ken Christopher (Langhaller Farm) on West Somerset District [Council], was taken ill. TT thought might as well put up for WSDC, so did. By-election, Liberals and Labour decided they were going to put up. They forced an election, unusual mid-term. TT won. So that was that, was clerk to Dulverton Town Council and on WSDC. Reckoned to be untenable because of conflict of opinions. TT Independent, has never belonged to political party. Ken a Liberal, although Independent on district, though TT could never work that out. Stayed as district councillor for ten years until decided had had enough, finished in 1975. Stayed on as clerk to town council another five years, totalling 15 years, then decided that was enough.

More involved in being clerk to town council than people think. Evelyn Knight doing it now. Work endless, at everyone's beck and call. They tell you that you come to meeting, take a few minutes and write a few letters, that's all. Don't tell you you're also responsible for all the street lights when they go out, drains when they get blocked, hedges when not cut, everything else in town, stinging nettles falling over Abbotts Way. That dandelions blow their seed all over someone's place, rabbits or deer eating flowers in cemetery. They don't tell you this.
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2/6
 

TOWN CLERK: CAR PARKS/TOWN HALL

Then there's the grass cutting. Then you're responsible for car parks. No-one tells you that they don't pay. Then they have to pay £12.50, of course they don't pay £12.50, they write you a long letter telling you why they didn't pay. Then you have to decide whether they're telling the truth [gives examples].

TT town clerk before charges came in. Harry Close, chief executive or someone, decided that if they farmed out all the car parks they'd get the money back and have no work to do because parish clerks would be doing work. Then they could collect the money. Dulverton pays West Somerset District Council something like £15,000 a year now for car parks, because on a rent. So district council thought they must be on a good thing. So they said give it to Tom over at Dulverton and see what happens. They did their sums wrong and TT made an enormous profit first year, so much so that the council didn't pay all they said they were going to. Otherwise auditors would have kicked up a fuss. TT said if he didn't make a profit DC could have them back, not going to do the work for nothing. DC never let out another one, doesn't know why, several asked for it. They just left it to Dulverton. There was talk the other day of taking Dulverton back again, which they can do. They can say they won't be renting it after 31 March 2001, which they are at liberty to do. Then Dulverton would lose some money. Most of it has gone into restoration of town hall.

Have put lift into town hall and generally restored it (phase1). Now have to do phase 2, underneath. Most of that money came from car park profit, otherwise would have had to raise it on precept. Have got £9-10,000 over four or five years. Made more the first two, then they started realising. [Back to top]
 

2/7
 

FILMING LAND GIRLS

What particularly comes to mind? Taking over car parks was one, the town hall, and all the time in the background the new pavilion on sports field, those things never cease. Town Council has been in the background on that. Existing one useless. New one will have to go there one day. They want to get lottery grant, but not easy. Have been trying for years. Town council has £5500. Then they picked up £3500 from providing background for film Land Girls, for use of town and inconvenience. Everyone seemed to enjoy inconvenience, from way they all gathered round watching. Film people came back one day to do night shot outside town hall and gave another £500, which went towards pavilion. All very useful. Film quite an event, town enjoyed it. £3000 went to town hall. Customs and Excise wicked. £3500 a gift, Customs and Excise said that's in payment for services rendered and VAT's payable, 17½%, you provided town so you provided service to film people; you provided scenery, town hall.

Film people hadn't closed their accounts, TT rang Mark Mostyn, location manager, who suggested TT wrote to producer, which he did and producer kindly wrote cheque for VAT, with TT making out VAT invoice. Wicked thing to do, town council hadn't provided any service, just because they filmed in the high street. [Back to top]
 

2/8
 

MOVE TO BRUSHFORD/COUNCIL BUNGALOWS

Moved to Brushford with parents, father died 1979, mother in 1981. Had a garden, part of it, 4 Nicholas Close and No 3, Bill Smith and father had it, then council wrote and said they would be building bungalows on land. So TT wrote back and agreed, saying would be pleased to hand ground back to them and no longer be responsible for it. So didn't go down there any more. So then they built these three bungalows. Before TT was on district council, he wrote and told them they'd have to modernise No 4, so they moved him from No 4 down into one of these bungalows [present location], wouldn't inconvenience them or him, so they agreed. He moved in 1986. Went onto district council in 1985, so was already on council when moved.
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2/9
 

LOCAL POLITICS/DISTRICT COUNCIL

District and town council work quite different, although again very little power. Can only do what you are told to by central government. Central government has the money, so has control. So - you will do this and if you don't do it there will be penalties. So what can you do, you can't do anything, so you give in. Same with council houses. Central government, both Conservatives and Labour, decided they would have to go so they reduced their money each year until you could do nothing. Then they ringed housing finance so you could move no money in or out and you were caught. Only people paying rent could raise money. You were in a trap. In the end you had to transfer. Mid-Devon was the same. People were asking for repairs and you couldn't do it.

When you've been there for ten years new members come in full of enthusiasm because those who've been there haven't done what they have should have done. New members furious and going to work wonders. Until they're told that they can't do anything. Then they begin to wonder what they are doing there.

If you're a councillor everything you say the press are going to pick up. In any other meeting it will be passed over, but everything blown up. Always referred to as councillor in the papers, that's correct. Have to be careful to be quite clear when you are expressing your own opinions and not that of the council, must make it clear. Town council have just had to do it over suggestion that they should be with Bridgwater division not Taunton. TT chairman of Brushford parish council (doing that this evening). Hadn't had chance to call a meeting so TT and some of the others wrote a letter expressing their personal concern, couldn't express council's opinion.

Wouldn't like to be on district now with party politics. Sheer nonsense. They have no power in the end. Then if you're not a conservative - Mike Gammon, who was independent for Dulverton, has just moved over to conservatives, presumably so he can get on the committees, and has caused quite a stir -  Unless you're with them your opinions aren't even considered, any more than at county level or central government. The labour party's in control and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks because they can do what they want. The party's in control and that's it. Also they take great care at county level that every committee and everything is all balanced in favour of the controlling party, so you can never win, you can always be outvoted every time, no matter what it is.

Not keen on that. TT thinks these people should be there to vote and do best they can for district or county, that's all that matters, not scoring points off each other. District council was like that when TT was there, was independent and politics was never mentioned. Had to decide whether something was best for WS district or not, that was all, could all say what they liked and vote how they liked. This could throw things sometimes. Chief exec could think they were going to vote one way but no-one knew, they could vote wildly, they had freedom on any subject. TT never really sure. They couldn't vote on some things because tied by central government. On other hand it was good. Did butter each other up, if TT wanted something done in Dulverton (Hanover, Abbeyfield [sheltered housing], car park) he would deliberately butter up something in Minehead and so two weeks later would get what he wanted [laughs].
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2/10
 

DULVERTON CAMERA CLUB/SLIDE SHOWS

Interested in photography. Belonged to camera club, treasurer for 25 years. Gave it up when went into district council, too much. Still showed slides. Interest developed in 1970s, camera club has been running since then. Richard Rawle, one of young boys on farm, suggested to TT they went to evening classes in Dulverton. RR didn't have to pay. They did two sessions with Mr Webb, then classes stopped and Dulverton formed their own club, ?1972, Richard about 15 then (54 now), club still running today though closes in the summer. TT still has contact with them.

Took a lot of slides on holidays which went down well with village institutes and mothers' unions. Put sound behind and commentary. Went to Ireland and Keukenhof gardens in Holland on day trip, £12, from Exeter airport to Amsterdam, left at 8am, back by 9pm.
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2/11
 

SILVER JUBILEE VIDEO

First interested in photography at 50, when colour slides came in, was attracted by that. Likes Ireland, has been back since but likes old set of slides. Got involved with video in 1977, filmed jubilee in Brushford, filmed everything, 13 odd minutes. Jim Bodger, Battleton, did some on same day. TT threw his in cupboard, where it stayed for 21 years. Then he worried one day someone would look in cupboard and throw it in bin. Made enquiries, one firm wanted £1000 to transfer it onto video.

Then TT read somewhere that Somerset County Council were running workshops, Somerset Sound [Film]and Video with Phil Shepherd. TT rang Phil saying he had archive film of silver jubilee which he wanted to transfer to video. To his surprise Phil fixed date and came down straight away. Had look at it, said it's all right, they could do something with it. Said their side of it would cost £600. TT got £600 from district council, rural development, parish council. Wanted it done nicely. Rang Bretia Baird at Gulland, who has wind group (three instruments).

Asked Bretia to put music behind film for him, they'd never done anything like that before, said they'd love to. So they dug some music out, doctor from South Molton involved. Ian, Bretia's husband came in to do commentary. Put it together, wrote commentary, recorded music Then Phil Shepherd came down and went off to South Molton. Then film was made up and TT went to Exeter where there was an enormous great computer thing and chap who did it professionally. He put it all together with music and commentary and they ended up with 11½ minutes, quite a nice film, all safe now. (TT has sold quite a few and there's one with the civic society.) That set him off with doing video stuff. He made up his mind to do the same for the 50^th in 2002, whether he lives to 2002 doesn't know, and compare the two over the 25 years, some will be the same people. So he thought he'd better get a video camera and learn how to use it. [Back to top]
 

2/12
 

MILLENNIUM/MILKING VIDEOS

Has filmed all the millennium events, except for one at the school on a Sunday afternoon which they'd missed. Has to film millennium project of Jan's, where a sculptor is making small statues to put round Dulverton. Something's happening on 30 September. Phil Shepherd's coming down again to look at what they've shot and see what they can do. In the meantime they [Somerset Film and Video] are doing one minute films, to tell a story in one minute. TT said I can do that. Asked Dennis (Richard's brother) if he could film him milking, the cows coming in, then come back in morning to film lorry picking up milk, so in one minute the cows could be milked. So bought camera last January, had a week to learn how to do it, and now there's a one minute film of cows being milked in Chard. Quite successful [laughs]. [description of film]

Retirement - TT doesn't stop, couldn't, would be bored, gets bored very quickly. Always has something to do. [Back to top]
 

2/13
 

CHRISTMAS

TT had a most peculiar childhood, not the kind which would normally happen. Up to 7 was at Uffculme, in a cottage. Can't remember much. Then went to live in vicarage and Christmas became quite different, presents much more lavish because there was money. Also used to go out to farms and things, be invited out. Christmases became something different. When left and went back into cottage life TT had to adjust [laughs]. Still couldn't have done half the things he has done in parishes and district and town council without those years in that vicarage. Doesn't know why, but wouldn't have had that training. Couldn't have done it. Gained something in those years. Wouldn't have had the confidence perhaps to do a lot of the things he has done. Tonight, he's chairman of parish council and can go over and do it, but without those years in the vicarage, where everything changed suddenly wouldn't have had the confidence to do these other things.

The people living in vicarage were important to everyone underneath, so you had them and then you had other people. It rubbed off on him as a boy and taught him he had to be responsible for what he did. Couldn't do what he liked, had to do what was expected of him. Strange, but that's the feeling he has. Fortunate. It gave him something he wouldn't have had if he'd stayed in a cottage in Uffculme.

Christmas has always been music, still is. Will be in a few weeks time. [MINIDISK ENDS]

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